Thursday, August 17, 2006

A Paul Martin sighting...

Hey, didn't that guy use to be the Prime Minister? But seriously, good to see him getting out and about again.

It's still early but I think in time, history will be kind to Paul and his legacy.

(Conservatives flames begin in

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Kyle Carruthers said...

Wouldn't it be the "Right Honourable" Paul Martin? Or do you lose the "Right" when you are no longer PM?

A BCer in Toronto said...

You are correct Kyle, the Right is for life. An oversight by Blair Wilson's people.

Anonymous said...

You will all think I'm nuts, but I think Harper was in a hurry to bring Martin down because Martin has the Kelowna, finally to get started on Kyoto, a plan for post-secondary, day care etc. - and Harper wouldn't want that to succeed.

Although Harper's govt accuse Martin of doing everything on a napkin the truth is that Dion, Dryden and rest worked months and months on their programmes.

It's sad to see someone kicked when their down - it feels really bad.

They say what goes around comes around and maybe, just maybe Harper will get his just deserts.

Lolly said...

How clever of anonymous. This is an evening of just "desserts" wish we could be there.
It will be the Rod & Gun at Comox Lake where Ducks Unlimited is showing their appreciation to "we the sponsors".

Anonymous said...

I am with the nuts guy above.

Reflecting on Harpers 4 (nee 5) priorities, and Martin's accomplishments there is a a gap interms of what is a legacy.

Kelowna Accord
New Deal for Cities
National Child Care
Kyoto Accord
Same Sex Marriage
Pacific Gateway
Vancouver Convention Centre
New Skytrain Line in Vancouver

Softwood Lubmer Deal
... everything else is a snoozer

knb said...

Anon, I agree.
They say what goes around comes around and maybe, just maybe Harper will get his just deserts.

I think it's more than a maybe, but it won't be,

Dessert, Wine and Grand Marnier

That's a bit weird isn't it? There are a million ways to look at his tenure, but at the core, I think he's a good man and I hope you're right Jeff, in terms of how he's viewed in history. The contrast of the current government should stand him in good stead.

Kelly Murdock said...

don't worry, i've already made them well aware of the "right honorable" oversight

Red Tory said...

Dessert, wine AND Grand Marnier. Now there's a healthy repaste.

goonandbleed said...

Paul Martin should go away and never show his face again. The sight of that guy makes me sick.

He was a horrible Liberal leader and prime minister and his plotting to knife the ol' man JC should earn him nothing but scorn by Liberals. Never has the hype for one man been so undeserved. I would rank him as the worst Liberal Leader EVER. And for those of you who were about to say Turner was worse let me stop you right there. Although initially I was not a Turner supporter I gained nothing but eternal respect for that guy when he laid his nuts on the line over Free Trade. Ultimately Turner belived in something whereas Paul Martin and his sycophants only believed in themselves.

It is because of Paul Martin that I put my membership with the Liberal party on hiatus until his departure. When he resigned on election night I had one tear streaming down my cheek because I couldn't believe my ears.

Paul Martin can go fuck himself.

Dan McKenzie said...

I knew you were nuts.

Brian Appel said...

Paul Martin will go down in the history books, I feel, as a good man and a decent Prime Minister who happened to have a steamy pile of scandal dumped on his lap before he was even fully moved in to 24 Sussex. I feel that, were it not for Adscam, Martin would still be in charge of a majority government today.

polarslam said...

Don't you need a legacy in order for history to be kind?

I don't doubt that in 50 years that nerdy historians who care about things will rank Martin as one of the top finance ministers, but in reality in 50 years nobody in the general population is going to know who the hell he is.

To school kids learning about Canadian History he will rank up there the Tuppers, Turners and the like of people no one cares about.

goonandbleed said...

Not for Adscam?!?!?? Surely you jest my brother.

Paul Martin had no principles, he abandoned any semblance of Liberals values and he was a Conservative voice at the Chretien cabinet table. Only when he was losing did he return to the base as it were and plead with them that he was really a "true Liberal."

He asked people to choose their Canada. They did; their Canada did not include Paul Martin as their prime minister.

To only call him a ditherer would be to ignore the countless other ways he was ill suited to be Canada's PM.

In fact I weep now that I have just spent the past 10 minutes of my life discussing Paul Martin. I can't get that time back! And you know what? Paul Martin still sucks.

knb said...

I'm with you Brian, in terms of how this went down.

As a Liberal, I can't say he was our brightest moment, but he's a good and decent man. The contrast to today...well look south. Lambaste Clinton as you like, think of the world then...think of it now. Case closed.

decoin said...

PMPM just wanted everybody to love him - so he promised everything to everyone and became a weathervane - but all he wanted was to be loved. Is that a crime?

SouthernOntarioan said...

It wasn't Martin really. I think he got the shaft for the mistakes of others. Although certainly he shares some of the blame, he doesn't shoulder all of it.

When he became Liberal leader I supported him and liked him. But after the Liberal party lamblasted my views as 'un-Canadian' I naturally felt pissed.

The real problem that the Liberal party had (and still has to some degree) is its willingness to insult people who have views different than them.

Liberal party advertising (in my town at least) portrayed people who opposed SSM, who supported private health care, who opposed Liberal child care as 'threats' to the country that needed to be stopped.

Not a good way to entice people to vote for you.

Dan McKenzie said...

Speaking of Paul Martin sightings I was watching the tennis on TSN and there he was with Sheila taking on the Hantuchova-Hingis match!

OttawaCon said...

Well, suit yourself, but I doubt history will be at all kind to Martin as PM, maybe as Finance Minister.

First off, his drive for power all but destroyed the Liberal Party rebuilt in the Turner-to-Chretien era. One can no longer imagine the Liberal Party recruiting....Paul Martin.

On Kelowna, if you seriously think that a desperation agreement put forward under the shadow of an imminent election will even enter the historical record, well, there is not much point in arguing.

On Kyoto, Paul Martin's government did nothing. Period. Just rhetoric - itself a reversal of Martin's position from 2000-2004, where he was the primary reason for paralysis.

On day care, see Kelowna, plus repeated Liberal promises.

On same sex marriage, he was dragged to the altar. He might get some credit for having used it as a wedge issue, but there was no leadership there.

As a counterfactual, what do you think a Harper-Chretien 2004 election matchup would have looked like?

Sinestra said...

Right HonoUrable. Write Canadian much? ;)

Anonymous said...

I think people look at Martin the way they do is because of the media. Like it or not, whatever did or did not happen under the Chretien government was because of Chretien - he called the shots. I read an article in a British newspaper referring the Martin as one of the most brilliant finance ministers in the world.

When he became PM, and I have no doubt Chretien vindictively helped tarnish Martin's image behind the scenes, he unfortunately wanted to do too much. He should have controlled his priorities better, yes, but at least he had more than easy vote buying initiatives. How hard can it be to cut GST by a piddly 1%. Harper's policies are simly lazy vote buying policies.

A Canadian Publius said...

Yikes... I spent nearly two years with Paul Martin as Prime Minister, in the end it cost me my job.

I guess hundred bones and only for an evening is a real deal... considering...

Manitoba Liberal said...

The Martin kool-aid gang will never accept that their guy was a total loser as the number one.

He was a great finance minister and number two, but him along with his dimwitted staff where not capable of running the big show.

It was not some conspiracy of the media or Jean Cherien that made Martin go on his mad as hell tour and turn the sponsorship story into an even bigger mess than it should have been (nor would he have even been PM at the time it broke if the knife sticking out of J.C's back was held onto for 2 months longer)

Martin was a failure and no one except Canadian History majors if even going to know who the hell he is in 50 years.

He'll be a forgotten as his dad to the average Canadian.

I look foward to laughing my ass off the tribute he gets at the Liberal convention.

I hope they keep the theme as the "Politics of Acheivement" like at the last one, cause Paul Jr. achieved so much!

Demosthenes said...

Brian called it, sad to say. Martin made an extraordinarily poor call on Sponsorship and shouldn't have waited for an election before he started trying to govern.

That said, he wasn't responsible for Adscam in the first place, and all the yelling in all the world by Jean Chretien's loyalists will never, ever change the simple fact that their man was ultimately responsible for PM Steve, and got the hell out of dodge before he could go down for it.

Demosthenes said...

Oh, and as for Steve's record of government? He isn't governing, he's campaigning. This is like looking at the last year of the first term of a two-term president and trying to discern a governing style from that. It's just a campaign, and so is this Canadian government.

If/when he gets a majority, then you'll get to find out what kind of Prime Minister you actually have.