Thursday, August 16, 2007

Call off the hounds!

Yes Virginia, there is (still) a health minister:

Health Minister Tony Clement has launched a sweeping review of safety standards as the list of tainted Chinese-made goods grows, with the ministry reporting "within weeks" on whether new measures are needed to protect consumers.

Nice to see Tony resurface, the search parties can be recalled. I’m sure he’s just been busy making people forget reducing wait times was ever one of the infamous five priorities. It must be accomplished, because it’s not on the new list of priorities, so good job Tony!

By the way, I wonder if our health minister ever sold that stock he owns in that pharmaceutical company? Some enterprising reporter might want to look into that, or maybe ask Tony about it before he disappears for another year to wherever Harper hides untrusted ministers.

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12 comments:

Johnny said...

ABCer please don't forget that health care is a provincial domain. The federal government can only fund the system. Under the former federal Liberal government they cut billions of dollars to the provinces. Here in Quebec the government was forced to put hundreds and hundreds of doctors and nurses into early
early retirement and then we have the exodus of doctors and nurses going to the states for more cash less taxes and better working conditions. So you see the problem we have now!!
I know all of this because i have a cousin who is a nurse at a local hospital here in Montreal. Throwing money
at the problem will not do much to help the situation sure you can buy the machines that we need true but what good is it if we don't have the personnel to work them. It takes about 10 years to form a doctor. That is one without experience then when they
have the experience they end up going to the states. Like i said i have a cousin who is a nurses. These are the type of offers they get example: Move to the states where the weather is nice free health care
because those hospitals
they would be working for
would give their families
free health care much lower taxes better hours
and much higher wages. So you see the problem it will now be hard to fix.
This was all caused by the federal Liberals sorry to burst your bubble.

John

ktr said...

Johnny,
you can blame the Liberals for cutting spending, i can blame the cons for creating the debt and deficit spending. this will get us nowhere.
Clearly, harper and the cons didnt make many big promises last election, but one of the biggest and part of the top 5 was improving wait times. so if the issue is totally provincial as you and your nurse cousin suggest, why did harper lie to me and say he reduce waiting times? Is it a broken promise? I think it clearly is.

Chet Scoville said...

Wow, I had actually forgotten who the health minister was. I don't think that's ever happened before.

A BCer in Toronto said...

Johnny,

First, made a more detailed and eloquent case before getting to the usual 'it's the Liberals' fault' so thank you for that. Your argument is not entirely without truth, although I think it is lacking some important context.

But first, let me explain why it is entirely irrelevant to the question at hand. No matter who you argue created the problem, no matter whom you argue has jurisdiction, as ktr said the fact is Harper made a clear an unequivocal promise on wait times, a major one, one of his five priorities, a promise he has not only failed to keep, but is pretending he never made in the first place.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's a fact. Doesn't matter whose 'fault' it is. Doesn't matter who has jurisdiction. He promised to fix it. He didn't.

Anyway, yes, Liberals cut transfers in the mid 90s. Canada was teetering on the edge of insolvency and was in a fiscal crisis. Once the budget was balanced, major reinvestments were made in health and transfers. And in training. And in research. And in equipment.

But anyway, you can argue until you're blue in the face who's 'fault' the state of the health care system is. Have fun. There's lots of blame to go around. And, given the fact health costs are rising around the world, it's not as cut and dry as you seem to imply.

But actually getting down to fixing it might be more productive. Or, in this case, pondering why the current government has abandoned a commitment to fixing it and has put its health minister in the witness protection program.

Johnny said...

KTR all governments make promises during election campaigns. Some of the promises are easy to keep and some are much harder. When they made this promise I'm sure they meant well. But you have to realize that they can't force the retired doctors and nurses to come back and they can't force the people to stay and not go to the U.S. We live in a free society not CHINA!!Now is this a promises not kept yes is it their fault no!! The provinces are who administers thee hospitals in this country
not Ottawa 10 provinces 10 different ideas. Last week i went to thee emergency to a local Hospital here in Montreal
i went in at 9:30 a.m i left at 10:30 p.m. i had to go back in the next morning at 10:00 a.m and i finally left at 3:00 p.m. this was during the week not weekend or holiday. The nurse on duty told me and others that there was only 1 doctor in the emergency room. Imagine this is a city of 3 million people not a small town here. You want to talk about broken promises lets talk about it. 1) Remember the GST tax the Liberals said they were going to eliminate it remember that? The Libs senators
were stalling the passage
of budget because of the GST remember ? Not only
did the Liberals didn't eliminate the GST they increased it remember ?
2)Remember the North America Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) your guy Jean Chretien during thee election compaign
promised to tear up the (NAFTA)agreement remember that? Not only they didn't tear it up they embrace it know. I could go on for ever with the Liberals broken promises,
but it would take to long!


You said: "you can blame the Liberals for cutting spending, i can blame the cons for creating the debt and deficit spending. this will get us nowhere."Let me correct you on something that you may not know the P.C party is gone for every. The Conservatives is not the same party thee only one left from that party in the House is Peter Mackay can you name me anyone else not senators? So don't try to compare the two but nice try.

John

Johnny said...

Sorry abcer i was posting
my post at the same time
you were doing yours,but the post i send is a response to yours to!

A BCer in Toronto said...

Johnny,

Now is this a promises not kept yes is it their fault no!!

How is the fact they didn't keep their OWN promise not THEIR fault. Let's accept your premise that there's nothing the Cons can possibly do to fulfill their wait times promises. That would mean one of the following must be correct:

a) The Cons made the promise knowing it couldn't be kept. That would mean they knowingly lied to the Canadian people, and I think that would be their fault.

b) The Cons believed the promise could be kept, but were just woefully ignorant of the division of powers in the Canadian constitution. That would mean they're just stupid, and I think I could fault them for that too, couldn't I?

Yes, the Liberals broke some promises. I should note they explained why, and didn't pretend not to have made the promise in the first place. But anyway, the fact is, the Liberals ARE NOT IN GOVERNMENT anymore. They lost the last election. Part of it may have had something to do with broken promises. I guess the argument is the Cons are no better than the Liberals, we break promises too. Usually one tries to aspire to a higher standard.

Let me correct you on something that you may not know the P.C party is gone for every. The Conservatives is not the same party thee only one left from that party in the House is Peter Mackay can you name me anyone else not senators?

The parties merged, they didn't disapear, their record is their record. Although, I will grant you that many of the progressives of the progressive conservatives have fled in horror.

But, to correct you, off the top of my head I can name at least five former PC MPs still in the Con caucus who aren't senators, and that's not even counting Peter McKay. There's Norm Doyle, Loyola Hearn, Gerald Keddy, Greg Thompson, and there's also Rob Nicholson, who was not only a PC MP going back to Mulroney but was also a cabinet minister under Kim Campbell.

I could have given you two more, but Harper kicked Garth Turner and Bill Casey out of the caucus.

900 ft Jesus said...

There were a few promises Harper broke, saying they were really provincial responsibilities. Day care spaces - he came up with the pittance for kids under 6, but when pressed for his plan for more day care spots, he said it was up to the provinces to see to that. I can't remember the other one, off the top of my head.

I agree, he is responsible either for making a promise he didn't keep, be it through ignorance or lying. Making a political promise and trying to win an election on it - they should be certain the promise can reasonably be met.

johnny, I read the same as you said about the Doctors and nurses going south, but I also heard just last week on CBC that Canada is facing a sudden, large surge of US immigrants, partly due to fears of another draft, but also due to government funded health care in this country. Is that correct?

Johnny said...

900 ft Jesus:
"johnny, I read the same as you said about the Doctors and nurses going south, but I also heard just last week on CBC that Canada is facing a sudden, large surge of US immigrants, partly due to fears of another draft, but also due to government funded health care in this country. Is that correct?" Yes i saw
that but i don't know the reason for it but its good news any how! I didn't see any mention of doctors or nurses did you? 900 lets say your a
doctor here in Canada o.k. and some guy from the states comes and offers you a contract that you will get 6 figures moving to the U.S.where you have great weather 25 celsius in the middle of winter lower taxes will be living in the up side of town where crime is very low the hospital will give you
and your family free health care and free education also. Are you going to tell me that you would refuse? We can't compete against that! I wish things were different.

Now ABCER about P.C party and the CONS. Its not the same party that
was my point. One was
progressive and thee other is Conservative.
Bill Casey proved that he
is a Conservative he refused to join the NDP the Greens and the Liberals he said himself
that thee only disagreement with this government was over the Atlantic accord didn't he say just that ? As for Garth Turner he proved that he is a Left wing!

ABCER do you know any government no matter how honest they maybe that are able to keep every promises they make during
election campaign? If you do please point one out to me thanks!

Remember in the spring of 2006 the budget the left were all saying that
Harper would brings us down the road of defict
remember that ? In fact
we saw this spring a big huge surplus remember that? Then this spring we
had another budget this
time the left did not talk about a deficit,because they realized how wrong their
prediction was. We found out the first quarter of
this years budget that we have a $3.5 BILLION and
it looks like that we are going to have another huge surplus all of this with the mission in Afghanistan going on. I could go on but I'm tired
I'm going to bed goodnight!!

ottlib said...

Jeff:

I think you forgot Jim Prentice in your list of former PC members of the Conservative caucus.

If my memory serves me correctly he ran for the leadership of the PC Party against Peter MacKay.

Then again I could be having a senior's moment.

A BCer in Toronto said...

Right you are ottlib, Jim Prentice is another. There may be more, I stopped at five as I felt the point had been made... :)

Johnny said...

ABCER I was talking about the P.C. members who were elected when the P.C. party were swept by the Liberals in thee early 90's not thee actual members who ran for election.I hope i made myself clear!!Sorry!